makes sense,maybe the less inclusive/racism thing comes from your view not the video games you play.
Unless that game is csgo
Source: I play csgo
Don’t for get dota 2!
Source: I play valve games.
From my quick read through of their methods it seems like they didn’t account very well for the types of games, platforms and demographics. The decade in question saw a massive explosion of gaming as a hobby into the mainstream and, importantly, a strong growth of women in the gaming population.
So as a whole you have games becoming more mainstream to younger (“woke”) audiences and more accessible while the inclusive-biased demographics also blew up. It’s not at all shocking that you’d find more inclusivity there.
A much more interesting study would be separating the gamers from the Gamers. Show me how people playing Splatoon and Animal Crossing compare to the neckbeards living in LoL and HoI4…
A much more interesting study would be separating the gamers from the Gamers.
That would require you to define a Real Gamer, which would be divisive by design.
It’s an exercise in nutpicking.
Normally I would agree… But there is a seriously real difference between someone who plays csgo dota and hoi4 vs someone who plays animal crossing splatoon and peak.
Its fundamentally two entirely different demographics which no over lap. Both are gamers but only one set are “gamers”.
Anyone who’s been around long enough knows how fast the gap between the groups are.
Yeah I have no idea why you lumped first person shooter players, moba players, and 4x players in the same category. Talk about fundamentally different demographics.
Edit: by the way, I love the Endless series (Legends, Space 2) and love Animal Crossing. I also have 5000 hours in Tarkov. Peak is also fun.
there is a seriously real difference between someone who plays csgo dota and hoi4 vs someone who plays animal crossing splatoon and peak.
About ten years of age range, for the most part.
Its fundamentally two entirely different demographics which no over lap
Yeah, famously, people never get older
Which of these groups do you expect to be older, I honestly cannot tell. I swear, not bait.
Personally, I’d expect the nintendo group of these two to be the older one.
Which of these groups do you expect to be older
In my experience, you start out playing Splatoon as a kid and then you discover CSGO when you get to HS/College and then you get a job, get married, have kids, and its back to playing Splatoon.
I can almost guarantee that 4x players are the oldest, yes this is a vibes based assumption.
This is obviously just my experience but the younger generation is not inclusive at all, kind of the opposite. At least around the north east US where I have lived.
I work in a kitchen. I often have food runners, hosts and dishwashers who are under 18. They’re extremely uncool sometimes.
Yeah.
Kids are jerks. They’re naive. I certainly was; I think that’s always been a thing, though I can’t comment on how much worse or better it’s gotten.
That’s true I was a shithead
Yeah, I was a little shit too.
Not universally for sure, Gen-Z men are especially problematic. But the sweaty dudes have become a minority of gamers, and I would expect broad-stroke “gamer” world views to reflect the influx of other demographics.
That’s what I’d like to see more of in this research. Cut it by age cohort, gender, income, genres of game, years in the hobby, etc…
Or mobile games, which is the bulk of gamers now.
In almost 50 years of playing D&D I’ve found that gamers tend to be more accepting of just about anybody than the general public is. I think it’s partly because the gamer population itself gets more than its share of being spurned by that public.
let me point you all in the right direction: people in general are more inclusive than the general public is led to believe
Metal heads and punks are also really inclusive despite society viewing them otherwise.
and despite a tiny but vocal minority of them being bigoted assholes (for metalheads at least, don’t know enough about punks)
every group of humans has a subset of bigoted assholes. dont hold it against them unless they are tolerated by the majority.
Punks are always having to run off Nazis who want to come to their shows.
Might be just my anecdotal experience but that seems to be the case for basically any group of people. Edit: typos
Maybe it depends on the subgenre of metal. Every time I discover a new black metal band, I have to research if they are Nazis or not.
Yeah, really good point. I’d say it’s a bit peculiar with metalheads, since it’s a culture that revolves around dark and violent themes, so it makes its bigoted members a bit more visibly harsh or extreme, than other musical (or not) cultures. But this is just me nitpicking, you hit right in the center.
Agreed. Most people, generally, tend to be good individually. We recognize we’re all humans. We all get hungry, we all love, we all struggle.
It’s the vocal minority that are bigoted and utilize DARVO just like rapists and billionaires 🤷♂️. They very well may be on a sociopathic spectrum and/or have devolved by losing empathy, which humans evolved to build society and community and thrive together.
Punks yes, Metal heads not until somewhat recentlyish… ;)
What stereotypes? I have never heard someone say that
Bullies say that kind of stuff.
Largely comes from shit heads who use open VC, especially on FPS games, to say heinous shit, given that it’s pseudonymous and they’re not likely to face real consequences from it.
It’s less of a thing these days simply because the novelty has worn off and pseudonymity is less of a protection than it used to be, since a bad reputation in an online community actually means something if you spend a lot of time there.
But, a loud obnoxious idiot shouting slurs or spamming them in text chat tends to paint a whole community in a bad light, creating the stereotype.
A couple years ago there was a meme of calling the n word the gamer word. I think this was caused by some streamers at the time saying the word on stream. Connotations of it being the gamer word.
G unit?
Gamergate?
Isn’t it much more than a stretch to call those dickbags a stereotype of gamers? It was like 4 people. Unless I misunderstood the term “playa” or something…
It was much more then just 4 people. More of a case of a vocal minority but it also shaped my perception of Gamers and made me disengage from almost all GamerTM spaces apart from News.
I play a lot of multiplayer games and I find that gaming constantly teaches me that no matter what, it always comes down to the quality of the community.
Every other aspect of design is a comparatively merely a detail.
A well designed game plants the seeds for that. E.g. trying to avoid toxicity by removing chat vs supporting community hosted/moderated servers.
I agree, for multiplayer video game design I think this is where the most difficult kind of artistry comes in.
I still hold voip is the worse thing you can add to a game if your goal is to have a good community.
Its exclusively used to harass basically.
It depends, all of the multiplayer games I play voice chat is great, but I don’t play popular games that attract asshats.
Have you played Arc Raiders? VoIP there is (generally) a pleasant experience.
All the people who complain about games being woke don’t play any games.
they probably play call of duty or similar…
You dont understand, I simply have GOT to buy and play the new FIFA/FC/Madden/NBA2K its simply so much better than last year’s! No, thats not all I play, of course not. I also play, like… Uh… GTA 5… Yeah, what a story, am I right? Especially when that guy goes “oh shit here we go again”? What a moment. Also that one PlayStation game, uhh, well I forgot its name. Anyway, what’s your Valorant rank?
And they’re butthurt about somewhat woke fanfic of their beloved game.
Chasing that diamond in league.
Who am I kidding, they’re chasing silver.
Nah they couldn’t get to silver so now they play TFT.
Just don’t hang out with Madden or COD players and you’re probably fine :D
Also LoL players.
For such a dull community they sure bitch about toxicity the most.
Yeah, they are thinking of 2000s xbox live chat. It’s been a while since then.
This study isn’t saying that xbox live users today are better than xbox live users 20 years ago. They may actually be worse. All they say is that xbox live users today hold more inclusive beliefs than the general public today. The community could still be more toxic than the general public, despite those beliefs. And the general public could have become worse over the last 20 years.
I think games these days don’t select for anything in particular. It’s a giant space that caters to every taste. That gamers are more inclusive than the general public could have any of a million reasons, but I think it’s easier to look at non-gamers than try to find any commonalities among all gamers
Also the trash tends to stink the most.
Not really, I’m thinking of literal unapologetic nazis on Steam, gamergate chuds on Twitter, incels on Reddit, mykittens on Discord and so on and so forth. Competitive games suffer from bigotry the most, but there’s still plenty of casual “you aren’t a real gamer if all you play is Sims/Stardew/Animal Crossing” aimed primarily at women, too. And of course it’s currently the wave of nick fuentes type stains that freak out over anything even remotely “woke” that keeps the shitshow going, the GoW situation literally just took place.
However I do think that all of the above is strongly amplified by the outrage content farms, so I can believe when “The authors suggest that hostility might be driven by a vocal minority of players rather than the general gaming population. It is also possible that certain specific online communities reinforce exclusionary behavior, even if the average gamer holds progressive views.”
yah you don’t find a lot of lobbys like ‘good old’ xbox cod lobbys like that anymore. league of legends i believe currently still holds the crown for current day toxic lobbys
Maybe in ranked queues, but I play a ton of the more casual game modes (ARAM mayhem and Arena) and the toxicity isn’t super common to see. Like, it does happen but it’s much rarer than it was a decade ago now that Riot actually moderates things.
I still see calls for eliminating minorities in Steam forums, and not very subtle ones at that.
That’s one place normal people know to avoid and is not representative of the whole.
I haven’t used Steam Community Forums for a few years, but when I did, it really depended on the game (and I’m not the type to be playing the games where there those behaviours would become prominent). As someone who mostly plays indie games, I found the odd racist post where it was clear they were trying to find like-minded people and nobody would bite. Also, if I reported something for any reason, they typically took care of it within 24 hours at the most and I never had a case where I reported something get rejected.
It was a choir of angels compared to comment sections on ifunny or 4chan.
Direct link to the study: https://www.psycnet.org/doi/10.1037/ppm0000672
Unfortunately, its paywalled, but I’d be curious about the methodology and population.
Well it was posted about by psypost which is dogshit and constantly spams headlines like this based off studies with n=25 chinese teenagers, online survey
But then psypost writes a 50 paragraph “blog” post about it like its gospel and never mentions these insane limitations, and almost everybody happily accepts these posts because the headline meets se confirmation bias if theirs, or an expected one at least, then sprints to the comments to blather on and on about it, never even reading the original crappy study
Its all really unscientific but masquerades as scientific fact
I despise psypost and think it should be banned
We cant even verify the methodology or sample size of this one but look at all the commenters in this thread who have seemingly accepted it as valid science
If anyone ends up getting access, I would also be interested in the study.
If you ping me tomorrow, I’ll be happy to send it to you when I’m at my computer.
Hi! Just a ping about the article if that’s still on the table.
Fun fact, for some papers, if you email an author they are allowed to share it with you.
That’s super nice of you! Greatly appreciate it. Will do!
Maybe - hear me out here - engaging in stories tends to make you more empathetic? Movies, books, games, they all give you stories about other people. If you’re shown how to imagine what it’s like to be another person, you will probably end up being a better person.
Or whoa dude hear me out what if play and games has been around forever and is exactly an inclusive thing people do?
You literally cannot play a game without including someone
If someone calls you a slur, or whatever, in a game, chances are they don’t care about the aspect of you they’re badmouthing - they don’t know you enough to care. To me, it’s usually either saying shit just for the sake of it, or it’s like a subconscious test of whether you have a stick up your ass, and if you actually get mad or offended, you’ve failed the test.
or you are playing a game that has a large and toxic playerbase, and not 100% gamers are great people, thus, you are talking to someone who is more of a normie than other gamers.
They do care a lot and that is why they are making their baby assault.
I just don’t understand what it has to do with inclusivity? They will whine on anyone. Its extremely inclusive
It’s just Asmeinkampf and his filth that give most of us a bad name being a loud minority.
Most gamers who play more than CoD and League tend to engage more with the medium and stories that are told, able to empathize with the characters and introspect upon our own lives, similar to any other form of art/media. Arguably, sometimes even on a deeper level given the interactive nature of the medium.
We couldn’t be further from someone like Marc Andreessan who believes he’s a genius and proudly states he has no introspection. Yet we’re the ones that take the brunt of criticism. Thanks Epstein for your fucking psyop in the gaming alt right sphere.
