What’s wrong with removing rape and incest games from Steam?
Edit: Thank you all for your answers, I was nervous to ask the question incase I would come off as a troll or ass hole or something and piss everyone off. They are very informative and have given me much to read and think about.
First question: Why is it okay for payment processors to conduct censorship of any kind? Why is it their place to decide what is and is not buyable?
Second question: What’s the next thing some right-wing death cult is going to pressure them into censoring? Anything addressing minority rights? Any adult content at all? What about sex toys, birth control drugs, abortion drugs, hormone treatments? What else are they going to cull from society by saying “Get rid of this or we’re not going to allow you to do any business in the world?”
The issue is payment processors unilaterally revoking access to content based on what they (or a conservative hate group with a telephone campaign) personally find morally impermissable.
Well not sure about you, but I’d like to agree rape and incest is pretty fucked up so yeah it probably should be removed, so why should people have to see that on their computers in the first place?
I’m not a fan of the games. I also know that these groups also consider certain people, like lgbt people, to be just as morally impermissable. If this is acceptable for them to do, why not censor all queer content for the same groups? Where does it stop?
I did not think their minds would be so fucked up to work that way, as I’m nothing like that myself. I wish there was a way to ban just rape and incest, and it not snowball into something uncontrollable, then.
Ultimately the material you seem to have an objection to is just an artistic expression, created with the consent of all involved. It has nothing to do with an actual illegal activity. This is just a smokescreen to further the conservative agenda of some old assholes with lots of money. If left unchecked, these groups would likely move on to other things like banning sex shops or certain civil rights organizations (e.g. LGBTQIA+) from using credit cards. How far would you allow them to go with their puritanical beliefs, when you can no longer purchase a beer or watch a scary movie?
so why should people have to see that on their computers in the first place?
You don’t have to see anything online, (unless you are on a mind rotting infinite scroll). When you want to see something or play a game you have to actively seek it out.
This issue is that once there is a precedent set for payment processors manipulating markets they wont stop. Just like the zombies on tiktok that say “un-alive” because they thin the word “died” will have them kicked off the internet, publishers and developers will get nervous that their game may not sit well with a payment processor for some reason like religion, racial heritage, or opinions on sexual orientation and gender, and they will be unable to sell their game.
I see you, just the truth is, sometiems you do see stuff you didn’t want to without seeking it out. The reason I know about incest games existing on steam is because it showed up on my recommendations or something once, without me actively seeking it out.
Same with other genres of games, they pop up when I’ve never had interest in that type of game to begin with.
But okay thanks for that second paragraph. I haven’t thought of that before. I guess just don’t see how they’d think “ok we got rid of the rape and incest, now let’s go Nazi on everything else”
sometiems you do see stuff you didn’t want to without seeking it out
I certainly didn’t want to see you on the internet today but I’m not calling to cancel Lemmy.
The reason I know about incest games existing on steam is because it showed up on my recommendations or something once, without me actively seeking it out.
Only if you clicked the little checkbox to enable sexually explicit games to be recommended.
I guess just don’t see how they’d think “ok we got rid of the rape and incest, now let’s go Nazi on everything else”
It doesn’t have to be full Nazi, a right wing CEO could decide that all trans content is immoral and should not be sold. This wingnut Australian group already has their sights set on non-hetero games.
yes, that content is despicable and probably shouldn’t have been created in the first place, or at the very least stopped from publishing by valve. but that’s not what we’re talking about here.
if the payment processors have that much power to pull games they don’t agree with, they won’t stop here with rape/incest and can pull whatever they decide is “impure”.
it sets a precedent where the people who handle money can grab even more power just because they feel like it. dating sims/violent shooters could be on the block next, and while it would be a much harder push for them due to the size of fanbases, would you still roll over and say “well not everyone wants to be subject to these things on their computer”?
What about the 1000 rape/SA movies? Should those be removed too? I love a good revenge movie where the women come back and fuck up their attackers.
I’ve never played any games like the ones removed, but the principal still stands, when they decide people shouldn’t buy or own something, they just block it?
What happens when they decide anything homosexual should be blocked? Or anything non Christian? Or anything regarding BLM? who the fuck are they to say ANYTHING at all?
I do see a difference between it being part of a storyline that gives you a justice boner, and something actually glorifying the thing. I’ve seen lots of movies and shows where someone gets raped and the rapist gets what they deserve. I have not seen any rape games yet, but the incest games I’ve seen where the point of the game is to fuck your huge tittied mother
LGBT, homosexual, non-christian, I did not initially see as part of the subject, but I get what you’re saying
Steam choosing what to host on their platform is fine. A random payment processor forcing their hand due to mild pressure from a fringe Christian group in Australia is not. Because those loonies will classify anything outside of a married couple having missionary sex as obscene and harmful.
First, they will remove rape and incest, then they will remove all LGBT games, then they will remove all nsfw, and then they will remove all violent games and so on until only the games deemed acceptable by the US evangelicals are left.
Woah, so I know you’re not saying rape and incest is part of LGBT, but that sentence kinda made the jump. How did we get from rape and incest to LGBT? Why can’t just rape and incest be removed and stop there?
The platforms do this when found or reported already. This is the first they came for (group A) then they come for (group B) etc. I don’t think they meant that rape/incest = lgbt(note the comma in their comment), it looks like they are saying that when this is successful the companies will then get “complaints” about LGBT games and they would get removed, then the violent games etc.
It opens the door to removing any number of games for any other number of reasons.
Remember the war on violent video games? Maybe not, but there are tons of people who think that violent video games cause people to be violent which has been proven to not be the case, yet people still parrot it like it’s true. It could easily escalate to that.
Also, they already went after ALL NSFW games on itch.io with all of those games being removed, so it’s already getting worse right before our very eyes.
If you don’t see how it can escalate from here then I don’t really know what to say.
Okay I’m stupid.
What’s wrong with removing rape and incest games from Steam?
Edit: Thank you all for your answers, I was nervous to ask the question incase I would come off as a troll or ass hole or something and piss everyone off. They are very informative and have given me much to read and think about.
Porn bans are a wedge used by conservatives to widen the criteria once the ban is in place.
Interesting, thank you
First question: Why is it okay for payment processors to conduct censorship of any kind? Why is it their place to decide what is and is not buyable?
Second question: What’s the next thing some right-wing death cult is going to pressure them into censoring? Anything addressing minority rights? Any adult content at all? What about sex toys, birth control drugs, abortion drugs, hormone treatments? What else are they going to cull from society by saying “Get rid of this or we’re not going to allow you to do any business in the world?”
The issue is payment processors unilaterally revoking access to content based on what they (or a conservative hate group with a telephone campaign) personally find morally impermissable.
Well not sure about you, but I’d like to agree rape and incest is pretty fucked up so yeah it probably should be removed, so why should people have to see that on their computers in the first place?
I’m not a fan of the games. I also know that these groups also consider certain people, like lgbt people, to be just as morally impermissable. If this is acceptable for them to do, why not censor all queer content for the same groups? Where does it stop?
I did not think their minds would be so fucked up to work that way, as I’m nothing like that myself. I wish there was a way to ban just rape and incest, and it not snowball into something uncontrollable, then.
This content occurs in the Bible, should it also be banned from sale?
What about old plays that contain similar content?
What about art that contains it?
The point is that visa and mastercard should not be policing it, if is legal to own you should be allowed to buy it.
Okay this is very thought provoking, and makes the situation more complex than I expected
But yeah, guess it should be up to the store and not the payment processors
Yes.
Ultimately the material you seem to have an objection to is just an artistic expression, created with the consent of all involved. It has nothing to do with an actual illegal activity. This is just a smokescreen to further the conservative agenda of some old assholes with lots of money. If left unchecked, these groups would likely move on to other things like banning sex shops or certain civil rights organizations (e.g. LGBTQIA+) from using credit cards. How far would you allow them to go with their puritanical beliefs, when you can no longer purchase a beer or watch a scary movie?
You don’t have to see anything online, (unless you are on a mind rotting infinite scroll). When you want to see something or play a game you have to actively seek it out.
This issue is that once there is a precedent set for payment processors manipulating markets they wont stop. Just like the zombies on tiktok that say “un-alive” because they thin the word “died” will have them kicked off the internet, publishers and developers will get nervous that their game may not sit well with a payment processor for some reason like religion, racial heritage, or opinions on sexual orientation and gender, and they will be unable to sell their game.
I see you, just the truth is, sometiems you do see stuff you didn’t want to without seeking it out. The reason I know about incest games existing on steam is because it showed up on my recommendations or something once, without me actively seeking it out.
Same with other genres of games, they pop up when I’ve never had interest in that type of game to begin with.
But okay thanks for that second paragraph. I haven’t thought of that before. I guess just don’t see how they’d think “ok we got rid of the rape and incest, now let’s go Nazi on everything else”
I certainly didn’t want to see you on the internet today but I’m not calling to cancel Lemmy.
Only if you clicked the little checkbox to enable sexually explicit games to be recommended.
It doesn’t have to be full Nazi, a right wing CEO could decide that all trans content is immoral and should not be sold. This wingnut Australian group already has their sights set on non-hetero games.
I’m sorry you didn’t want to see someone asking a question. You didn’t have to answer it but thank you for your answer
I don’t remember clicking such a checkbox, but the last thing I’d expect to see regarding sexually explicit content is stuff like rape or incest.
you’re missing the point.
yes, that content is despicable and probably shouldn’t have been created in the first place, or at the very least stopped from publishing by valve. but that’s not what we’re talking about here.
if the payment processors have that much power to pull games they don’t agree with, they won’t stop here with rape/incest and can pull whatever they decide is “impure”.
it sets a precedent where the people who handle money can grab even more power just because they feel like it. dating sims/violent shooters could be on the block next, and while it would be a much harder push for them due to the size of fanbases, would you still roll over and say “well not everyone wants to be subject to these things on their computer”?
What about the 1000 rape/SA movies? Should those be removed too? I love a good revenge movie where the women come back and fuck up their attackers.
I’ve never played any games like the ones removed, but the principal still stands, when they decide people shouldn’t buy or own something, they just block it?
What happens when they decide anything homosexual should be blocked? Or anything non Christian? Or anything regarding BLM? who the fuck are they to say ANYTHING at all?
I do see a difference between it being part of a storyline that gives you a justice boner, and something actually glorifying the thing. I’ve seen lots of movies and shows where someone gets raped and the rapist gets what they deserve. I have not seen any rape games yet, but the incest games I’ve seen where the point of the game is to fuck your huge tittied mother
LGBT, homosexual, non-christian, I did not initially see as part of the subject, but I get what you’re saying
Steam choosing what to host on their platform is fine. A random payment processor forcing their hand due to mild pressure from a fringe Christian group in Australia is not. Because those loonies will classify anything outside of a married couple having missionary sex as obscene and harmful.
First, they will remove rape and incest, then they will remove all LGBT games, then they will remove all nsfw, and then they will remove all violent games and so on until only the games deemed acceptable by the US evangelicals are left.
They already removed all NSFW from itch.io
Woah, so I know you’re not saying rape and incest is part of LGBT, but that sentence kinda made the jump. How did we get from rape and incest to LGBT? Why can’t just rape and incest be removed and stop there?
Conservative movements are not known for their restraint and fairness. They cannot be trusted to not abuse people.
Fair
The platforms do this when found or reported already. This is the first they came for (group A) then they come for (group B) etc. I don’t think they meant that rape/incest = lgbt(note the comma in their comment), it looks like they are saying that when this is successful the companies will then get “complaints” about LGBT games and they would get removed, then the violent games etc.
Okay, yeah I noted the comma, but I guess the word all being in that sentence is why I could’ve misread it
Because they didn’t just stop there when they removed from all NSFW content from itch.io
It’s not just a one-and-done thing, it will keep escalating.
It is an actual slippery slope and not a fallacy because we have been down the censorship road many, many times.
It opens the door to removing any number of games for any other number of reasons.
Remember the war on violent video games? Maybe not, but there are tons of people who think that violent video games cause people to be violent which has been proven to not be the case, yet people still parrot it like it’s true. It could easily escalate to that.
Also, they already went after ALL NSFW games on itch.io with all of those games being removed, so it’s already getting worse right before our very eyes.
If you don’t see how it can escalate from here then I don’t really know what to say.