After recently beating the main quest in Morrowind for the first time, I’ve been thinking a lot about the series. I’ve seen every last pixel of Skyrim, and have played quite a bit of Oblivion, and I’ve finally made my way through Morrowind. I’ve played a bit of ESO, a very small amount of Daggerfall (mostly through Daggerfall Unity), and a couple minutes of Arena. I’m curious what the folks on !patientgamers@sh.itjust.works think of the series as a whole, and what their preferences are.
Incoherent ramblings about TES 3-5
I was late to the series, having started with Skyrim. Up until Skyrim I was mostly into shooters like Halo, but Skyrim introduced me to RPGs as a whole, and I haven’t looked back. Skyrim will always hold a special place in my heart for that. I do think gameplay wise it’s really good, I love the combat, the graphics/art style is really my thing, and it’s basically infinitely moddable at this point. It’s also my most played game of all time. With that being said, it has a ton of glaring issues to me that hold it back. The College of Winterhold is easily the biggest one for me. The fact you can be Arch Mage without ever using a spell after the first quest is rather alarming, and the fact that the centre of all magical studies in the province has, what, 10 students? It feels so hollow. I’m pretty sure there’s more teachers than students. The actual questline isn’t terrible, but it feels like so much of an afterthought, which is really a shame. I’m also not a big fan of the lack of meaningful choice in the game in general. The only truly consequential choices you can make are (1) kill the Dark Brotherhood, which is a terrible idea and awful quest, and (2) the Civil War questline, which I am a big fan of, but it’s sad it’s the only one with real gravity. Speaking of the Civil War, that’s definitely my favourite faction/guild/etc in the game. It’s fun, has real choice, affects the game outside of the questline, and you don’t become the leader at the end. I really don’t care for the trend of every guild making you master at the end, it just feels kind of silly. Especially for questlines that you can complete relatively quickly. How did a brand new nobody get promoted to the highest rank in the span of a couple in-game days? It’s a trend in lots of games unfortunately, that I personally don’t care for. But the Civil War questline doesn’t do that which is nice. At the end, you still have a boss. I also enjoy the Thieves Guild and especially the Dark Brotherhood, those are always fun times. Killing the Emperor is awesome, though it’s totally ridiculous that you can join the Empire afterwards, or even kill him while doing the Civil War questline with no consequences. The main quest is kind of boring after the first time and I mostly skip it these days. Something Skyrim does a really good job of though, at least to me, is making every playstyle genuinely fun. I’ve done every possible playstyle at this point I think, and I’ve always found a way to make it really enjoyable. Any weapon type, any magic school specialization, any class you want to fall into, it’s all fun to me. I’m also divided in the lack of classes. It definitely doesn’t feel traditional RPG, but it’s also nice it doesn’t punish you for trying a new playstyle. I also really love all three DLCs. Dragonborn is of course incredible, Dawnguard is a fun, fleshed out questline, and Heartfire, while small on content, does allow me to build a house which I genuinely love. I make sure to always build a house on every playthrough. There’s tons of video essays out there taking about the pros and cons of Skyrim, and I mostly agree with almost all of them, but the above are some of the key points to me.
Oblivion was my second game in the series. It has since firmly found its way in my heart, and I absolutely adore this game’s charm. It’s goofy, utterly ridiculous, and also somehow epic at the same time. This game absolutely oozes charm. It’s the one word I’d use to describe it. I do really enjoy the remaster too, but it did take away a lot of what made the original special. I know combat is something lots of people liked to hate on, saying it felt like fighting with wet pool noodles. I get that but it never really bothered me. The Arena was always really fun for me and something I always do on every playthrough, regardless of the build I’m going for. The Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild are both excellent, and I really enjoy the Mages Guild and the Fighters Guild too. The main quest is pretty good but certainly not the highlight to me. I do really love how you’re not the main character in the story though, it’s easily my favourite aspect of the main storyline. Oblivion does mostly do the same as Skyrim with making you the top dog at the end of almost every questline, but it feels a bit more natural so I don’t mind it quite as much. I still can’t help but feel silly though, being the boss of all the guilds. The Listener, Gray Fox, and Guildmaster should not be the same person, if that makes sense. But I guess that’s my fault for playing like that. I also really like the function of the Blades in this game, way more than Skyrim or Morrowind. They feel like a home, and I really do enjoy going to check on them for quests and such. I also really love Sean Bean’s voice and will just talk to Martin over and over to hear him talk to me. One more point about Oblivion, I’m a massive fan of being able to cast spells while your hands are full, without having to switch out to “spell mode”. One of the best things they added to the game and I’m really annoyed Skyrim ditched it. I know it was to replace it with shouts, but I never use shouts in Skyrim. I’d much rather have a spell instead.
Morrowind is my most recent to complete. I haven’t touched the DLCs yet but I look forward to trying them soon. This game took me a long time to get into. I’ve been playing it off and on for years and years now, never getting more than a couple hours in before bouncing off of it to play something else. But this time it finally clicked, and holy shit this game is fucking amazing. Yeah, there’s absolutely issues with it. Traveling like a snail in the overworld in the first little bit of a new playthrough is painful. Swinging and missing over and over again is frustrating when you don’t know what you’re doing wrong. And I really wish there was a better way to show you what effects are active. Missing all your hits without realizing why, since you have full fatigue, before checking and realizing your agility got tanked for some reason but you don’t know why, is annoying. Not remembering the duration of the potion you took and not having an easy way to find out how long you have on your effects is also annoying. But overall, if you can get past the missing QoL features (many of which are brought in with OpenMW, which is fantastic), the game really is great. There’s so much I haven’t done in it yet, so many questlines I haven’t tried, so many cities I haven’t explored, plus I’ve only touched the base game, but I’m really getting into this world. I’m a big fan of how much of a god you can become. I just discovered the sheer joy of alchemy looping and zipping across the map in seconds, or destroying everything you touch (including your weapon, whoops). Making a potion for 50,000 speed, then levitating and tapping the W key and you’re suddenly outside the map is so entertaining. Not at all practical but that’s part of the fun. I also love how the game has stat requirements for guild advancement. It perfectly solves the issues I had with Skyrim’s College, I don’t know why they removed the feature. It absolutely makes sense that you shouldn’t be able to advance in the Mage’s Guild without any magical affinity. And I love how different guilds have disposition over other guilds. The game just makes sense, I guess is what I’m trying to say. It feels like a genuine, lived-in world. If this game was made today, with modern graphics and QoL features, but all the gameplay, story, etc of the original, I think it would do tremendously well. Maybe not commercially, but very well beloved.
I don’t really have enough experience in the rest of the series to have a paragraph about, but I will say, ESO is really fun to play from a gameplay standpoint, and it looks gorgeous too, I just haven’t messed with it much. And Daggerfall certainly seems like something I’d enjoy if I really got into it, but I’m not sure if or when that’ll happen. Arena is probably out of the picture, to be honest. And the spin off games are probably not getting touched either.
“Final” thoughts
Will all that rambling out of the way, to actually answer the question in the post, what do I prefer? Well, it’s hard to say. I’d like to say Morrowind, but with my lack of experience with it I’m not sure I can quite give it the crown just yet. Maybe after a few playthroughs, all guilds finished at least once, DLCs explored, different playstyles done, I’ll feel more comfortable calling it my favourite. I can definitely see it taking that place eventually. Skyrim could make sense in theory, I mean, it’s my most played game of all time and I have a ton of nostalgia for it. It’s also my wife’s favourite video game and is something we bond over to this day. I know the game like the back of my hand, and it easily defined a big chunk of my life. It has sort of become part of my identity in a small way. But I have so many issues with it at the same time, I’m really not sure. That leaves Oblivion. It’s the game with the least going for it (compared to the other two, I still adore the game), but it also doesn’t really have much going against it. I can’t really think of a single major complaint I have with the game. Small gripes, sure, but nothing dealbreaking.
To me it kind of feels like being asked your favourite band, and trying to decide between the band that got you through tough times and that have some really good songs but also have some really bad songs or maybe even a couple bad albums (Skyrim), the band that you’ve recently gotten super into that sort of do everything you like in a song but you haven’t fully explored their discography yet so you feel weird calling them your favourite (Morrowind), and the band that you’ll never skip a song from, they’re always good music, but nothing they’ve released really reaches the same peaks as the other two bands (Oblivion). Not a perfect example but you get what I’m trying to say.
Actual decision
If you twisted my arm and made me pick, I’d probably currently have to go with Oblivion. I don’t have much to complain about, and I really do enjoy playing the game. It might not have the nostalgia for me and satisfying combat that Skyrim does, or the breathtakingly complex worldbuilding and massive power fantasy like Morrowind, but it’s still a fantastic game that doesn’t ever disappoint me. Like I said, I think Morrowind will eventually take this spot, but for now I can’t quite place it there yet.
I’d love to hear your thoughts. Don’t feel like you need to write a novel like I just did, and no disrespect to anyone who ignores 99% of what I wrote, but I think this could be some fun discussion.
Oblivion just has the coolest world to me. No shade to the alien world of Morrowind, but I really think Oblivion is where they nailed world diversity. Skyrim has varied biomes, but it still all feels kinda samey. Oblivion, on the other hand, has lush green meadows, forests, dark swamps, sunny coasts, and the MASSIVE Imperial City. Plus, every city has its own regional architecture. It just makes the world feel super inhabited, which Oblivion needs to offset the goofy ass radiant dialogue.
Oh, and try Daggerfall. Daggerfall Unity adds a ton of QoL features, and the scope of the game is genuinely impressive. Plus, dungeon crawling is super fun. It almost feels like D&D. I usually add in some small stuff; Daggerfall doesn’t accurately display dungeon entrances, showing ruined forts and other dungeons as literal holes in the ground most times. So I mod in a fix for that and a few other things, and it really doesn’t need anything else. The character creator is amazing in vanilla, too.
Yeah the towns and cities being so diverse is a really big plus for Oblivion. Skyrim has it a little bit but not to the same extent. Morrowind’s alien world does take it up a notch for me, however.
I want to put a fair amount of more time into Morrowind before I try a new RPG, but I’ll consider Daggerfall Unity again and try to give it a fair shot if I get to it. It’s just hard to find time these days to devote to a massive world and Daggerfall is a bit intimidating in that regard. I’ve been really lucky lately to have so much time for video games (I’ve put in around 20 hours in the last 2-3 weeks) but most of the time I only get a couple hours a month. If, after exhausting Morrowind, I find myself with this kind of free time again though, I’ll keep Daggerfall top of my mind.
Daggerfall has a massive world, yes. However, you don’t really explore the world in Daggerfall the same way. Almost everything is generated, including towns, side quests, and dungeons. Most “exploration” consists of getting a quest in a town, finding out info from other people in the town, then fast traveling to the dungeon and exploring that.
It’s less like Morrowind onward and more like infinite D&D or older dungeon crawler games. In fact, the half-baked radiant quest system in Skyrim was an attempt to recreate some of that system from Daggerfall. Except Daggerfall has so many interesting variables.
I had heard that it’s procedurally generated but I wasn’t sure to what extent. That’s interesting. Well, maybe it’ll be the next title I check out then. I definitely have a lot I want to do in Morrowind first, though.
in some ways the first one. you could get a magic sword and constantly fill your mana bar and be levitating with a force shield and blasting about like magneto.
If we’re talking as they were made by Bethesda then it’s kind of a tie between Daggerfall and Morrowind, legitimately my only major complaint on either of those games is combat but I also hated combat in most RPGs back then anyway.
If we’re allowing extreme modlists and playing in ways not originally intended then I actually do have to give it to Skyrim VR with 500+ mods to add in basic vr functionality. Been a bit of a Skyrim hater since 2011 despite still playing the fuck out of it over the years (though I will admit it does make a fantastic handheld game, that’s the perfect place for a mindless, repetitive, basic action rpg) but in fully fleshed out in VR it is one of the best gaming experiences you can have.
Skyrim is the best overall experience. It’s the most flexible in play style, especially with robust mod support. It’s also the only one that actually is fun to play in third person mode.
Morrowind would be second. The world is probably the most interesting. It does feel like you spend almost as much time fighting the game as enemies, combined with a lot of busy work makes it more nostalgic than fun.
Oblivion is a weird middle ground, it’s mechanically clunky in a lot of ways like Morrowind, but it doesn’t have the consistent charm. Shivering isles may have the best quest line, but it’s not enough to save the whole game.
Morrowind, because it’s just modern enough to have a reasonable control scheme and proper 3D graphics, but old enough not to be dumbed-down for consoles in terms of game mechanics (magic effects and whatnot). Plus, it has by far the most interesting and unusual setting (compare netches to the normal animals you find in Oblivion and Skyrim) and also a fast-travel system that’s actually integrated into the setting in a realistic way.
I do wish the non-magic combat were a little more Skyrim-like with power attacks and finishing moves and whatnot, but lack of that is a small price to pay to gain the above.
I feel like Daggerfall, by reputation, might be even more interesting in terms of the scope of stuff you can do (e.g. climbing ladders), but the graphics and control scheme are just too primitive and I find it hard to get into.
I forgot to mention it in my post but the setting is a massive reason why I love Morrowind so much. I like Oblivion’s diversity of towns and cities too, each one feels unique, but as far as the overworld is concerned Morrowind definitely takes top spot.
It’s between Daggerfall and Morrowind for me.
Daggerfall is incredibly nostalgic to me, it is so expansive, to the point of being overwhelming. So many options, and so many of them fun. So many quests, and enemies, places to go and things to do. A friend set up a simple script to just run across the world and we would check in on it to see how far on the map the PC didn’t get. I never beat the main plot, I would just make characters and see how strong I could get them. Nothing before or since could be bigger.
Morrowind is a very complete, nearly perfect (for what it is) game. I love that the world is so weird. I love the cities, and the NPCs, and the rich quest lines that I never found particularly improved by its successors. I loved that sometimes I had to really think and suffer through some friction. Success in Morrowind was a reward for serious effort.
Oblivion is fine. Even with Sir Patrick, it’s the most forgettable of the games. I liked the DLCs a lot. Skyrim intentionally lacks the sort of huge, sweeping cities that I adore in high fantasy. It’s a prerequisite to compete with Morrowind in my book.
Morrowind! I had to actually think a bit during quests, whether that was picking up on clues for what would make a good gift for a certain NPC that is part of the main quest or following directions to get somewhere. Getting used to the different traveling systems was enjoyable as well. I really liked the twist on the chosen one trope, especially when you meet some of the others. And the ways things fit the prophecy. It’s so slow at first to get places on foot, but by the end you’re whizzing around in the air. Breaking through the power curve is fun to build towards.
Modded Skyrim is pretty good, too, once you get rid of the gamey things like waypoints and the UI generally, put some decent quests in, justice for Parthanax, open cell cities, unlock spells, fixing the magic system, etc etc. But last time I touched something in my stack it all fell apart and I haven’t felt like putting the time in to getting it to a decent state for a few years.
Oblivion is one of the strongest forms of nostalgia for me. It was the first game I played on my 360 back when I was like 14. The music is really what makes it for me - the Skyrim soundtrack is amazing too. It’s too bad Jeremy Soule had to be a huge POS and ruin elder scrolls 6 like 15 years before it comes out.
I’m not saying I don’t enjoy his music but dude really wasn’t all that talented. He was like the Disturbed of video game soundtracks, just keeps making the same handful of songs over and over…just take a listen to Guild Wars 1 and Oblivion back to back lmao.
Daggerfall holds a special place in my heart. Yes, it was a glitchy mess but Hal Bouma, one of the main programmers on the game would hang out in IRC helping with problems, and if you had really severe problems you could send him your save file and he’d sort it out.
I may be basic but Skyrim, final answer. The perfect amount of humor, combat, and jank.
You can go hard or as casual as you’d like.
The mods give it so much versatility too. I fought a giant Thomas the tank engine with a lightsaber one time.
I fought a giant Thomas the tank engine with a lightsaber one time
Man, Mondays, tell me about it 😩
I played Morrowind and it became my favourite game, not just my favourite Elder Scrolls.
Then I played Oblivion, and it was Oblivion.
Then I played Skyrim, and now it is Skyrim.
Hopefully I’ll play Elder Scroll 6 in a few years, and hopefully (but not expected at this point) it will be my favourite.
Though, if Morrowind get updated to today’s standard, I think that was the best of them all, at least in sheer freedom that it gave you. Or it could just be my nostalgia, haven’t played it in decades.
There is a group working on recreating Morrowind in the Skyrim engine. !skywind@lemmy.world
Cool, I think I have seen it mentioned before, haven’t taken a deeper look though. Will check it out.
I like Skyrim for the system in place, but i really enjoy Oblivion more due to how much variety of biome Cyrodiil has. Also the spell crafting is really fun.
I believe I have played Skyrim the most in terms of time, but I’ll have to go with Oblivion for the sheer nostalgia factor and superior writing of the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild questlines. I haven’t played Morrowind, so I need to give that a shot… right after finally finishing Tainted Grail: Fall of Avalon
How are you liking Tainted Grail? I’m on act 3 right now but I’m still trying to do side content before I finish the story.
It’s a game I’ve had since I first learned about it in early access.
Not the person you responded to, but I’ve liked Tainted Grail a lot.
It feels more like what skyrim should be in that the RPG elements are more integrated with the gameplay while still keeping the action moving.
Some general thoughts:
- I like the writing, it’s nice to have a different world/setting.
- the combat is okay, but at least requires a bit of skill/strategy.
- I like the more limited item set with a focus on upgrading/modifying weapons rather than just finding good gear.
- The fact attributes actually matter in quests/dialog is nice to see and done decently well.
- Crafting actually feels somewhat rewarding and useful.
I really like it. I have restarted so many times trying to play different character builds and still gravitate back to a heavy hitter in either physical or magic damage. I have only gotten part way into act 2 because of my severe case of restartitis. I think the writing is enjoyable with just enough weirdness and cheese (on multiple levels) to make it land well. The fact that a small studio pulled it off and continues to release free DLC and a full expansion is amazing.
There are potions that refund all your skill and attribute points, so you can play around with different builds in one save. You can learn the recipe for it through a side quest so you can make a ton of them.
I’ve messed with the origin potions but haven’t completed the quest to get the recipe. I tend to gravitate to rougelike/lites, so I enjoy the actual process of a fresh start too.
Not of but I liked it until mine broke. Like, one of the final quests glitched and I can’t access the area I need.
That song with the cutscene absolutely slaps too.
I’ve been recently replaying the Elder Scrolls games and I actually found myself having a lot of mixed thoughts on this time around.
Now, I do still like them, but they all have their uniquely weird flaws.
Daggerfall - I actually like the effort DF went into making a ‘world’ first and then a game second, even if some of the ‘gameplay’ decisions suck for gameplay, they are a neat idea thematically. That being said, DF doesn’t have some of the more distinctive ES flavor the later games have (it feels more generic fantasy most of the time), and it honestly feels like there are just some pieces missing, which explains why some mechanics are really underbaked or outright near worthless.
At its best though, dungeon diving feels like a daring adventure with all sorts of dangers, traps, and secrets, and that’s good.
Battlespire - Did not like this one. It was like someone laser focused on the idea of dungeon diving from DF and threw a bunch of other stuff out, which ultimately made it very rough.
Redguard - Have not replayed this one as I can’t get it to run very well without crashing.
Morrowind - Similar to above, MW puts a lot of effort into the world building. That being said, I’m not a huge fan of the combat - Its sometimes very difficult to gauge how ‘difficult’ an enemy is and so you might get unexpectedly one-shot. Likewise, the DLC feels a little gimmicky where it throws enemies (Jinkblades, ugh) at you with a lot of cheap shots and it can make it a save/load slog.
Another thing I find frustrating about Morrowind is that its really easy to exploit, which can be ok and all, but it seems like you’re almost expected to do so at some point, and that doesn’t feel right. There are mods that ‘balance’ this and remove exploits but idk somehow this feels worse because then you’re expected to heavyily grind to become just ‘decent’.
Most of the quests don’t hit very hard either. A lot of the guild quests are not great, though there are a few memorable ones that kind of make up for it.
Oblivion (original, I did not play the remaster) - Oblivion has some of the best (at least most memorable) guild quests hands down. This one feels like it has a lot of glue between the edges because I recall so many oddball bugs or quirks or strange NPC reactions - Which in all honesty (at the time) worked in its favor because it was very distinctive. The DLC about the mad god felt like it leaned into this and it worked.
Skyrim - I think Skyrim is the most cohesive ES experience out of the bunch. I think its quests aren’t as memorable as Oblivion, and in fact, I think a lot of the main quests/faction’s writing is kind of weak (with some high notes). But the combat is pretty good most of the time, it has a lot to do in the world, and the world’s design is pretty fleshed out. There are parts that feel really chunky but its overall not too bad because it doesn’t usually hinder the game.
Blades - This one honestly felt like Skyrim but stripped for parts (with no overworld, only one “town”, etc) and its only purpose to me is to show that Skyrim without the world building experience and immersion makes for a terrible game.
ESO - I actually didn’t really like ESO. I did like being able to explore the whole world (even though some regions were a little lackluster), but it most didn’t feel very much like ES, it just feels like an MMO with a Skyrim paint job.
Morrowwind 100% in my opinion.
Ok, but why?
