That doesn’t stop a client from rotating walls so they get culled and don’t appear, or modifying shaders to outline enemies, or using coordinate data to run a map/radar and auto aim bot.
Most of the time I think you can let the community self police, but for competitive play you probably can’t stop all forms of cheating. That chess guy used a remote controlled butt plug to cheat, people will always find a way.
That doesn’t stop a client from rotating walls so they get culled and don’t appear,
You’re talking about FPS games, a subset of competitive games. This, and the other things you’ve brought up aren’t a problem for other types of games.
Most types of RTS and 2D fighting games will not have any of the problems you’ve listed.
But for FPS games specifically, the server should not report player location unless the player is visible. If people elsewhere in this thread are right, the server already does this with ray tracing. Not the fancy lighting stuff, just the basic “draw a line and see if X is hit” stuff.
And most FPS games will already have that logic built in, as they tend to use ray tracing for bullet hit detection, often referred to as ‘hitscan’.
So no amount of wall invisibility will have an effect.
or modifying shaders to outline enemies,
IMO the game should give all players the ability to turn on outlines for enemies/teammates anyways. People who have difficulties parsing colors should have that as an accessibility option.
Marvel Rivals already does this, and allows the player to choose the color that most stands out to them.
or using coordinate data to run a map/radar
Not a problem if the server doesn’t report player locations unless they’re visibly.
and auto aim bot.
This one is admittedly a little harder, but again not impossible to deal with. Chess sites already do this with ELO tracking and matching moves against the best possible move.
If on Wednesday you’re playing like an ELO 600, and Thursday you’re suddenly playing like an ELO 3200, you’re cheating. In an FPS that would look like going from an accuracy of 12% to an accuracy of 100%.
Most of the time I think you can let the community self police, but for competitive play you probably can’t stop all forms of cheating.
Sure, but instead of being passive and using kernel level spyware like most AAA studios like to do, doing the basic sever side authority checks are far more effective.
That chess guy used a remote controlled butt plug to cheat, people will always find a way.
And he was caught. Do you think we should be checking every chess grandmasters butthole going forward?
That chess guy used a remote controlled butt plug to cheat, people will always find a way.
And he was caught. Do you think we should be checking every chess grandmasters butthole going forward?
He was accused (by his opponent Magnus Carlsen) of cheating, and it’s the internet that made a meme of using a buttplug as a means of cheating. There was never any legitimate accusation of using a buttplug to cheat, and there was never any consequences for him. In fact, he sued Magnus for defamation and they settled out of court.
To be clear, uh… the butt plug chess thing is a meme.
Like, it was never substantiated, it comes from one high level player basically insisting that the other guy who he had just rage quit a match with must have been getting outside signals and when asked how he said “a vibrating butt plug.”
And thus it became a joke because it was such an absurd suggestion.
No, I don’t think chess players need the butthole check. Just give them an MRI before a match (jk)
Those were just off the top of my head cheats. Even for non FPS games like civ they discovered a guy was using a bug to load the map seed and map out the goodie huts for an advantage while streaming.
People were able to figure out his play was suspicious with math and look closer.
Even if you remove non visible players, you still need to render footsteps and sounds through walls. I think it’s a fine idea, to quote the mathematician from Jurassic Park “life, uh, finds a way”
I actually do agree that cheat detection should be a mix of ML and algorithm based signals that result in review. For non competitive play the ratio of cheat votes or something probably works well enough.
I think kernel level anti cheat is too invasive, and it’s weak.
I don’t really know what the state of cheating in those types of games is, fighting games feel epically Wild West, with specialized controllers or grips and single frame hits. The creativity of fighting game players is amazing.
Those were just off the top of my head cheats. Even for non FPS games like civ they discovered a guy was using a bug to load the map seed and map out the goodie huts for an advantage while streaming.
that occurence is actually a guy cheating in a tournament/league
It’s not lighting/rendering raytracing, it’s the same math that hitscan guns do. Draw a line between point A and point B, if the ray collides somewhere in-between, then that line is not a valid visibility line.
You can cut down on these checks considerably if the player’s camera isn’t even pointed at another player, or if they are out of range.
Most FPS games are typically run by big studios on big servers that have plenty of computational power for this.
That doesn’t stop a client from rotating walls so they get culled and don’t appear, or modifying shaders to outline enemies, or using coordinate data to run a map/radar and auto aim bot.
Most of the time I think you can let the community self police, but for competitive play you probably can’t stop all forms of cheating. That chess guy used a remote controlled butt plug to cheat, people will always find a way.
You’re talking about FPS games, a subset of competitive games. This, and the other things you’ve brought up aren’t a problem for other types of games.
Most types of RTS and 2D fighting games will not have any of the problems you’ve listed.
But for FPS games specifically, the server should not report player location unless the player is visible. If people elsewhere in this thread are right, the server already does this with ray tracing. Not the fancy lighting stuff, just the basic “draw a line and see if X is hit” stuff.
And most FPS games will already have that logic built in, as they tend to use ray tracing for bullet hit detection, often referred to as ‘hitscan’.
So no amount of wall invisibility will have an effect.
IMO the game should give all players the ability to turn on outlines for enemies/teammates anyways. People who have difficulties parsing colors should have that as an accessibility option.
Marvel Rivals already does this, and allows the player to choose the color that most stands out to them.
Not a problem if the server doesn’t report player locations unless they’re visibly.
This one is admittedly a little harder, but again not impossible to deal with. Chess sites already do this with ELO tracking and matching moves against the best possible move.
If on Wednesday you’re playing like an ELO 600, and Thursday you’re suddenly playing like an ELO 3200, you’re cheating. In an FPS that would look like going from an accuracy of 12% to an accuracy of 100%.
Sure, but instead of being passive and using kernel level spyware like most AAA studios like to do, doing the basic sever side authority checks are far more effective.
And he was caught. Do you think we should be checking every chess grandmasters butthole going forward?
He was accused (by his opponent Magnus Carlsen) of cheating, and it’s the internet that made a meme of using a buttplug as a means of cheating. There was never any legitimate accusation of using a buttplug to cheat, and there was never any consequences for him. In fact, he sued Magnus for defamation and they settled out of court.
To be clear, uh… the butt plug chess thing is a meme.
Like, it was never substantiated, it comes from one high level player basically insisting that the other guy who he had just rage quit a match with must have been getting outside signals and when asked how he said “a vibrating butt plug.”
And thus it became a joke because it was such an absurd suggestion.
No, I don’t think chess players need the butthole check. Just give them an MRI before a match (jk)
Those were just off the top of my head cheats. Even for non FPS games like civ they discovered a guy was using a bug to load the map seed and map out the goodie huts for an advantage while streaming.
People were able to figure out his play was suspicious with math and look closer.
Even if you remove non visible players, you still need to render footsteps and sounds through walls. I think it’s a fine idea, to quote the mathematician from Jurassic Park “life, uh, finds a way”
I actually do agree that cheat detection should be a mix of ML and algorithm based signals that result in review. For non competitive play the ratio of cheat votes or something probably works well enough.
I think kernel level anti cheat is too invasive, and it’s weak.
I don’t really know what the state of cheating in those types of games is, fighting games feel epically Wild West, with specialized controllers or grips and single frame hits. The creativity of fighting game players is amazing.
that occurence is actually a guy cheating in a tournament/league
here is a explanation and how they caught him
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFjU4Yhpsso
It does so for performance.
It’s not a big performance hit.
It’s not lighting/rendering raytracing, it’s the same math that hitscan guns do. Draw a line between point A and point B, if the ray collides somewhere in-between, then that line is not a valid visibility line.
You can cut down on these checks considerably if the player’s camera isn’t even pointed at another player, or if they are out of range.
Most FPS games are typically run by big studios on big servers that have plenty of computational power for this.
It’s not the computational power it’s the lag.
That can be compensated for. Apply the difference in current latency to median latency to all clients.
The butt plug chess guy was some smart shit.
“We’re gonna need root access to your asshole.”
Not the worst pickup line I’ve heard.