I think the real hole in the market is a simple device that could replace the remote control.
Honestly… To me, any controller that can connect to my PC is a PC controller.
Like yeah, I get the Steam controller; now people can play games that would usually require mouse input. But in my case I’d just… Use the mouse…
I have a controller from 8bitdo (the one that looks like a SNES married to a DS4) and I use that one for games that work best on controller.
The wired 360 controller should have never been discontinued. There even was a wireless usb dongle. It was a great controller for pc, i used it for java minecraft around 15 years ago. Was also great for flying in Gta5.
Still using it. It works great.
“I play video games with the same input as Microsoft Excel.”
Factorio players: “I play video games with the same input, output, and gameplay as Microsoft Excel.”
My favorite video game is Microsoft Excel.
I thought that was EVE Online.
Imagine playing Excel with a controller.
I’m imagining it right now
Radial menu for functions maybe… double-click left thumbstick to focus menu bar…
I’m getting close…
yes.
Well…
Microcomputers had joysticks before they had Microsoft. On the PC platform with the 15 pin game port, a 4 axis (XYZ + throttle) and 8 button plus hat switch form factor arose by the late 90’s such as the Microsoft Sidewinder and Logitech Wingman series. Later models made the transition to USB, there were a couple attempts at force feedback about the time the game industry shifted.
In the early 2000s, flight sims like the Janes series, Microsoft Flight Simulator etc. and other vehicle sim games like Descent and Mechwarrior faded away in favor of first person shooters like Half Life 2 and MMORPGs like World of Warcraft which are best controlled by mouse and keybaord. Interestingly enough, PC games designed for joysticks like Mechwarrior and Crimson Skies moved to consoles to be played with controllers; both saw their final entries on Xbox 360.
Microsoft discontinued the Sidewinder series in 2003. In late 2005 they released a Windows driver for the Xbox 360 controller along with Xinput, making the Xbox 360 controller the de facto standard for a PC game pad. This arrangement has remained more or less intact to the present day, with Microsoft adding support for the Xbox One controller to Windows 10 in 2015, though 360 controller support remains.
tl;dr: The standard issue Xbox controller has been the first party supported gamepad on PC for 20 years.
Logitech produces the cheap Player Two ones you use to pilot billionaire crushing submarines. Valve tried with their original Steam Controller, which was kinda weird and had niche appeal. More recently the likes of Gravis have tried? But the average unwashed mass is going to walk into Best Buy and pick up an Xbox controller, or use the one that he already owns for his Xbox.
Those cheap logitech ones are solid as fuck. I have had my F310 since around the time they came out and it still works like the day I got it. Solid build construction, ability to switch between Direct Input and Xinput, DualShock layout, nice buttons… The only things it doesn’t have are rumble, gyro, and adaptive triggers. Nor are the face buttons pressure sensitive like an actual Playstation controller; tho that doesn’t matter since PC games never utilize those anyway.
I would be willing to bet the OceanGate’s F710 was the only thing of that sub still intact and operational.
Pretty sure the pressure sensitive face buttons were only a thing on PS2 and maybe PS3 anyway.
Sony has long since abandoned those, since most games never used them, and most gamers never got used to them even if they did. Awkward and imprecise at best.
I only ever really noticed them on Gran Turismo 3, and racing games use the triggers for that now.
Isn’t the 8bitdo a PC first controller, for around $50ish bucks?
That doesn’t really look like it’s useful outside of video games though. It just looks like a good controller with slightly more features than normal controllers. The track pads on the steam controller really look like a game changer to me, I use them all the time on the steam deck for games that are awkward to use with joysticks.
Still love my original Steam Controller. At least 10 years old now I think. Still works great.
Same here. Working just fine. 👌 I have to say I’d love a controller that was all trackpads or touch sensitive surfaces. I’m actually looking to replace my mouse for something that scraps the wheel in favor of a more durable option, but I don’t feel PC touchpads are on par (inputs and ergonomics).
I got mine when it launched. Use it to play fps games as I get pain in my wrist using a mouse. I’ve had to repair mine a couple times when the shoulder buttons wore out. Got the 3d files from valve and printed new parts.
Beating mouse + KB is hard and people already have good enough Xbox/ps controllers to justify buying another
This is the correct answer. I use a controller on console because I have to. There are very few game genres (imho) where a controller is superior to a mouse.
To add onto your point, a lot of games where mouse+keyboard isn’t the best set of inputs, neither is a controller. Things like flight games or racing games.
Exactly, honestly fighting games are the only genre I can think of where a controller is better than keyboard/mouse… maybe platformers?
Edit: again this is my personal opinion. I knew a guy back when lan parties were still a thing that would play shooters with a trackball and he would annihilate everyone. We all got our preferences :)
Souls like games are pretty much always far superior on controller imo over m+kb. M+kb just feels janky for me in souls likes
Yeah they don’t make them with mouse and keyboard in mind or even pcs at all despite elden ring launching on steam at the same time. First version of Elden ring you couldn’t two hand a weapon, not possible with the default key binding. Also first patch had the funniest item on it, something like “Fix to use the GPU”.
Rock Band drum kit is the only non-pleb way to play soulslikes
Yea I can see that -I suck so bad at souls games I tend not to play them much anymore
I actually bought a Logitech trackball mouse shortly after I got my PC. My grandpa used to use one and I thought it might have been good for some gaming, but it had been too long since I last used it so it didn’t feel right.
Controllers are definitely the best option for racing games.
nah, steering wheel is
I don’t know how playing something like redout 2, screamer or inertial drift would go on a wheel(they all use twin stick driving).
Sim racing is definitely a wheel, but arcade racers are mostly controller for me.
Redout is fun with a flightstick
If you like steering wheels more power to you, but I have no desire to play with one.
Jimmy Broadbent suddenly sits up in a cold sweat, breathing heavily
TBF I’m pretty sure Jimmy is always sweating
he’s outta line, but he’s right
I don’t know what that means.
It’s just a personal experience thing for some games. I use controller (8bitdo Pro PS style) for FFXIV, Monster Hunter games, and a few smaller games that use third person overhead (Isometric?) as well as general turn based RPGs, but almost never for anything that feels similar to a shooter. Ark, Warframe, BG3, and a bunch of other survival/builder games, X4 etc are all keyboard and mouse.
There are some that may seem like they’re in the wrong category, like the Horizon games are controller for me despite having a lot of aiming mechanics, but again it’s all personal feeling of comfort. I don’t argue for either one to other people; just use what feels good to you.
I have a third-party Xbox controller that’s my main gamepad, and I bought a PS3 controller a while back for emulating PlayStation games (there was one game I played that I literally needed the controller for a specific mechanic/functionality).
My Xbox controller actually has a couple extra buttons on the back/bottom that you can program to be other buttons; I set them to be alternate bumpers so I don’t have to hold the controller in that weird claw way.
lol I too know the pain of relying on PS3 controllers for games with pressure-sensitive button inputs.
Mine was a motion control mini game that I couldn’t just skip
At least gyro is a pretty ubiquitous feature at this point, but I wouldn’t be surprised if pressure-sensitive face buttons die with the PS3.
Still bummed about the 100 dollar price tag
I think I’ll try it if there’s a sale, but that’s a hefty price for a controller. I’m fine with just running m&k for now
I think that’s just part of the territory of solid parts, wireless bits and batteries. Shit’s just expensive these days. If it suffers from stick drift, that argument will fall flat though.
And as big as Valve are, their bulk buying ability is going to pale next to Sony’s.
$149 for Canadians…
I don’t know the internals of their price decision, but IMO the controller should be sold at close to margin or at a loss. Their real money maker is in selling games and steam item trading. Their hardware should be accessible. The goal shouldn’t be to get a profit out of the controller, it should be to make people stick with the platform and create brand loyalty.
But who knows, maybe the costs of making one is just that high.
Isn’t xbox one is like 150?
They have different controllers at different price points, but my opinion is that a first party controller should only cost about as much as a AAA game at MSRP. A controller should be 40 to 70 usd. Retailers can adjust their price. Third party manufacturers can have more lenience in how they price
I hate to tell you, but AAA publishers have been trying to push $100+ games for a while now…
I really don’t see how that follows, a controller and a game are different things, why do they have to cost the same. I think the cost needs to be tied to price of manufactoring
https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/20298494
Oops here’s my point in a clearer manner. I don’t mean to tie it to the price of a game. Im just using that as a reference point
Ah, I was looking at pro, which is 170 euro where I am right now https://www.xbox.com/de-DE/accessories/controllers/elite-wireless-controller-series-2
wow, that is a lot for a controller.
I’ve had good experiences with the Gamesir Nova 2 for only $30.
There’s no touch controls, but for a PC-first controller it works great, even on Linux.
Everyone is busy maximizing profits instead of fucking innovating meanwhile valve is over here hunkered down like a mad scientist
Valve just realised that killing the golden goose, for a quick buck, is a bad plan.
A smooth, efficient customer experience keeps us around.
A low friction, but not aggressively in your face sales setup makes getting us to pay them very easy.
Streamlining the developer toolchain and sales path means more games to sell to us.
It’s not a hard formula, but apparently MBAs can’t keep with it long enough to let it snowball. They keep trying to cash out early, and cook the goose.
Not being a public company and having executive compensation be dictated by the results of a handful of quarters probably helps
Before the Steam Deck. I had said if Valve splits the back buttons and adds Type C Steam Controller 2 is good enough for me. Then I held a Steam Deck. Then I used a Steam Deck. and I knew then THATS what I needed as a controller. 4 years later here we are. I have money already in my Steam Account and anyone who I talk to has to hear me ask if its Monday yet.
Speaking of which… Is it Monday yet?
Yes it is, go, go, go!
I guess I’m old enough to remember that there were a plethora of joysticks and game pads during the 80’s and 90’s that were designed for PC. So many options for PC back in the day.
That all changed and dried up after Doom came on the scene and M+K and the precision that it gave became the norm and there was no real need for PC gamepads and the market for that dried up plus with console controllers moving to work with PC’s there was really no need for something PC specific since for most games, M+K is still better suited or at least more than serviceable so the PC controller market is niche still at best.
I played Descent II with both a Microsoft Sidewinder, and a Spaceorb 360.
Holy crap! I just saw that Linus Torvalds wrote in 1999, and is still maintaining, a Linux SpaceOrb 360 driver.
Holy crap 2.0! Here’s a guy selling a complete hardware and software solution to get a SpaceOrb 360 working on a modern computer: https://www.etsy.com/listing/4380741525/vectorbridge-usb-adapter-spaceorb-360?sts=1
Last time I looked, I couldn’t get Windows drivers for it, so I just gave up. Not on Windows anymore.
Decent and that sidewinder. Wow. That is a long time ago. But I remember!
I think what people will look back on and say was so successful about this design as it relates to the steam deck joysticks and trackpads is that it cemented a control pattern that I think will become a standard for high quality pc gamepads/handhelds.
The market is ripe for someone to make something very similar but flip the joysticks and touchpads for people that prefer that layout, for one…
I think the market is kind of stagnant, the Steam Controller should help shake that up a bit hopefully. I’m looking forward to getting 2 of them myself.
Even with a “pc first” controller there will still be a significant amount of pc users who just flat out refuse. Their loss though because this looks interesting.
I mean why would most people want it over a “normal” controller you can get for half the price and works with more than just steam games?
I mean you’ll be able to play anything on your pc with it, doesn’t have to be from Steam.
The price thing tho, yeah it’s pricy. I guess it comes down to how much you want touchpads.
Like the OG steam controller you have to use steam to launch for it to work like a normal controller.
According to the GN video the joysticks don’t work as a normal xinput device unless you have steam open the game to translate it. You’re locked into using steam with the controller. This is my biggest qualm with the OG steam controller. (well besides me hating the touch pad)
Because a normal controller sucks to play strategy games with on a PC.
And those 2 inch touch pads are that much better? Assuming they’re exactly the same as the ones on the Deck it’s not gonna be a great experience. It takes it from excruciatingly painful, to just very unpleasant but tolerable if you’re a masochist.
That is kinda my view too. I feel a trackball would have worked better than a touchpad, but maybe I just haven’t used touch pads enough.
That was one of the really cool features of the OG steam controller (and the deck too but I don’t use as much), pads can totally be setup to emulate a trackball and the haptics were weirdly good and giving you feedback. I found it really solid for games like warframe, that and gyro aiming (which I’ve never gelled with on the deck) felt pretty solid to me.
Otherwise, the trackpads can be used for things like rotary menus too which I definitely get a lot more use out of.
I’ve not used the steam deck, but I have used the original steam controller and the trackpads worked extraordinarily well.
I remember a time there was plenty.
