Sam Bent, 8 months ago (at this time), covered XLibre, which is essentially a fork of XOrg that wants to clean up the codebase, modernize it, and fix the security holes that lasted for years on XOrg.
Meetux, the developer, became persona-non-Grata in FreeDesktop, IBM, RedHat, and possible GNOME circles, simply because he wanted to fix Xorg so people have an option on what they want to use.
It’s also why I won’t kowtow to IBM, GNOME, and FDO’s demands, due to technical merit being moot.
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cool, I’m just gonna go ahead and enjoy my contemporary display technologies and improved security.
You do you. I won’t stop you, considering how many people seemingly think Wayland is the standard right now. I’m looking into Phoenix too, which is a from-scratch X Server implementation, and I’m sure that would be decent.
what’s wild is that you’d post this in Linux gaming (rather than a generic Linux message board), where technologies like display independent VRR, scaling and HDR become increasingly relevant.
Wayland is the standard today, in that
- The xorg development team moved directly on to it
- It’s the default for major distros and desktop environments
Arguing about this is an exercise in futility.
If you’re not trolling, I’m genuinely sorry that you’re wasting time and effort down in this rabbit hole occupied by shitty pundits preying on young, impressionable minds, claiming they wish to ‘strip the politics away from software’ when they’re busy doing the direct opposite of what they preach.
That’s the one written by the Nazi, right?
Nice ad-hominem.
Doesn’t matter what you call it, it’s a weird look for you to be okay with software created by a Nazi, especially when there’s so many better, easier options. You seem to be going to great lengths to integrate Nazi written code with your OS.
Ah yes, guilt by association fallacy on full display here. I get it, you don’t agree with his political views (I don’t agree with all of them, to be fair), and yet you have to use the bad company fallacy (same name for guilt by association) just because I’m using something that was written by someone you have difference of opinion over.
The fallacy occuring here is when you refuse to admit the real reason you’re using janky Nazi shitcode
What do you expect me to do, NOT call-out Nazis?
That is exactly what they expect.
why I use xlibre…
Because you are delusional. Next question?
Just remember that this is the kind of code quality of xlibre, the guy doesn’t even know C operators and is trying to write a fucking display server:
Meetux was banned after breaking the xserver multiple times, and then acting like everyone was conspirating against him about it.
How is it delusional when even sysadmins absolutely hate how Wayland works?
This is delusional. As if a org running Linux is going to have to support anything more than just kde or gnome. Also I would say as a systems admin I would push to have someone fired for installing X11 or a de or any of that on my servers. Typically now a days systems admins do not do things adhoc though a gui application streamed over ssh. You use automation tools like ansible or salt or orchestration tools in order to maintain consistency.
Oh, oh, I just noticed another inconsistency without even trying. You know all the babble about hardware support scattered throughout this and most anti Wayland posts, that it’s mostly about nvidia? Well guess what? Xorg has literally worse nvidia support! That’s right, X11 works on Nvidia only because the proprietary Nvidia drivers ship with an Nvidia specific implementation of the xorg server, but if you were to run real Xorg and not Nvidia xorg, it would have the same problem you have on xwayland. Except that with xwayland you get all the compatibility benefits of the recent move explicit sync in Wayland, that you would miss on plain xorg, so you would get all kinds of synchronization issues.
There are gaming issues regarding Wayland, and it will stay broken unless a complete re-write of Wayland is done essentially. XOrg is perfectly fine for gaming in my experience.
Fake. The “gaming issues” was the lack of direct scan-out, which for most people who gamed with v-sync enabled anyway changed nothing, I’m speaking in the past tense because Wayland has had direct scan-out for years, and it did not require a complete re-write of anything, it only required a new extension, which you can do when your protocol is based on extensions. You know what’s even better than direct scan-out? Vrr, which you can have while using multiple monitors each with its own refresh rate, and with the future frame timing protocol the experience will be even better
Also, “in my experience” means nothing. In my experience gaming on Wayland is perfectly fine, and my experience is worth the same as yours
Wow, that wall of text you linked sure is worthless. First of all, you can’t even tell if it’s signed by three different people or a single arrogant one, either way just sad, and in any case it’s only one sysadmin. But you can just scroll to random points without reading and find contradictions.
For example, I scrolled and found the governance part, it says on X11 there’s standardized protocol and changes go through a democratic review process, but the same is true for Wayland, the people who develop Wayland are the same who developed X11, and Wayland is heavily standardized, but the protocol is subdivided in extensions of which many are optional. Then it goes on saying that by contrast on Wayland you have a dictatorship of compositors because each can implement parts of the protocol as they see fit, but this doesn’t make sense because if anything having a single server that decides everything is a dictatorship, while allowing desktops to decide what to support is democracy.
I won’t waste time reading all that, but I’m sure it’s like this throughout.
Also, the IT guy from your local high school is probably a sysadmin managing 500+ computers. It’s not a particularly qualifying position.
Can you explain which specific improvements XLibre has implemented that X doesn’t have?
Why should I use one guy’s pet project over the original that’s maintained by a much bigger group for over 20 years?Basically, take Xorg, improve security and usability, but don’t go the Wayland route and break almost everything that requires certain permissions.
Sure, but how have they improved security and usability?
Which changes over Xorg convinced you to switch?
He didn’t became persona non grata, because he wanted to fix things. He’s persona non grata because he keept pushing breaking changes in the stable main branch. And when others on the team asked him to stop. He pushed back entitled and refused. So they gave him the boot.
I wish him the best of luck with his fork. He’s going to need it as it will largely be all him. As he’s not a responsible or team player. I’d say the xorg group could do better too. But they weren’t unjustified expelling him.
Wayland pushes a lot of breaking changes from what I’m aware of, while X is still stable. These are Wayland devs who are projecting what they’re doing onto people who use XOrg/XLibre.
You need to understand that Xorg is not a good piece of software by itself. Its entire value is staying unchanged and not having breaking changes. Once you remove that it becomes unuseful. On top of that, meetux did not introduce “breaking changes” in the sense of “new features that changes the API” he introduced “errors that slipped review” because he is not good enough to write code for Xorg. What did he say, that he is anti-dei and, and we should only include people based on skills? Well then he should be glad that he was excluded because on top of being an asshole he also lacks skills.
It’s explicitly free of any “DEI” or similar discriminatory policies.
…
Together we’ll make X great again!Pass.
I hope it fails
You say this like there’s any chance of it not failing
Thanks. It smelled like that, saved me a click.
That’s not the point I’m trying to make. Did you read the bottom line, where I talked about technical merit, not political merit? Being apolitical (neutral) is actually the best you can do for something like this.
Come on! Think before writing!
“This piece of shit is so good technically that you can close both eyes on how he’s a piece of shit”
I will never work, collaborate or hire someone like that. It’s not for nothing in recrutement we have Technical + Human assessment on the candidates. Because BOTH matters.
Pushing the “apolitical” narrative is just how to lower your values and it’s a NOGO for decent people.
What you’re doing is calling for me to choose a side, instead of being neutral. I’m going based upon technical merit, not so much political merit. I don’t even care for politics that much, considering I’ve been neutral on Lemmy.
If you don’t care about politics then you care only about yourself.
That’s called an abusive ad-hominem. I get these in different forms all the time, so I’m already used to it. Did I not show my thick skin when I spake truth to light?
You have no idea what an ad-hominem actually is. This is the 2nd time I’ve seen you use that term incorrectly; trying to use it as a weapon against critics, to deflect from the weaknesses in your own argument.
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/welcome?pageSearch ad hominem search
This is exactly what’s been happening. I’m just calling balls and strikes, and you seemingly attack me for that. The link I posted was given the damnation of the source (abusive ad hominem). Most people just should not understand, sadly…
And what is the technical merit in question? “Everything we didn’t change works the same”?
The link I posted has proof of how broken Wayland was by design. It was open-source originally, but when IBM took it over (and other things like PipeWire and systemd), they basically attempted to make more profits by making some of it proprietary due to a provision in GPL-2, tivoizing some of these thing, mainly RHEL in particular. Wayland seems to be the same, as it only benefits the big DEs.
Could you elaborate on XLibre’s technical merit over Xorg?
I was comparing the XLibre and Wayland merit technologically speaking. XOrg does have its issues, sure, but Wayland is much worse on some grounds. I explained this here before, for real.
Paraquoting an adjudicated (means guilty) rapist, 34 time convicted felon is hardly being noncommittal.
Ok, so what did xlibre achieve then? Is multi-monitor with mixed refreshrates + vrr a thing yet?
As far as I’m aware, that was already a thing somewhat with XOrg. It may have been in alpha state, but it was something. Wayland is more broken with it from what I’ve read on the issue.
Mixed refresh and vrr with mixed displays is one of the big reasons to use wayland lol, because X couldn’t do it.
Again, I had a thought of VRR and MRR being in a potential alpha state before Wayland started getting more development.
also mixed display scaling values and extended colour space support. Like there’s no argument against today. There were breaking changes as first, sure. The software ecosystem has more or less caught up.
At least mutter and kwin both handle multiple monitors and vrr perfectly, I’m sure other compositors do as well. And by handle I mean actually treat them like two displays, not “we make a single virtual display and output it on two ports while pretending all monitors have the same refresh rate” like it is on xorg
Wayland is fine. Xorg was cool, and might still have a few uses, but we’ve moved past a point where it should be the default.
If sysadmins have to deal with how broken Wayland is, that tells me all I need to know.
Proof is this: https://stoppromotingwayland.netlify.app/
That’s not proof that’s AI generated slop. It sounds plausible and it’s all nonsense.
Lol good luck with that shit
I’ve had a wonderful time with XLibre, actually. Granted, Picom is broken (it always was, to be fair about it), though I figured that out real quick.
So you’re compiling your own desktop environment in order to use this? I don’t know what picom is but I cannot imagine the hodgepodge of brokenness you would have to deal with. And for what? Be honest, does it have something to do with these evil jEsUiTs you’re always ranting about?
Picom is a compositor that a lot of XOrg/XLibre users tend to install for compositing, or making their desktop look nice. I’m using i3 and Cinnamon (both X, one with WIP Wayland support), and it’s had a history of issues. Right now, I have fastcompmgr, wich is a fork of an older version of Picom back when it was Compton.
Didn’t really answer either question.
Did you read too much into it and not find much? I literally answered the question about Picom.
Also, thanks for the circumstantial ad hominem about me speaking the truth to light.
I did not ask about picom. I don’t honestly care about it at all other than it sounds like one of MANY issues you’ll have using this mess.
What I asked about is if you need to compile your DE to use xlibre. I wouldn’t have a clue how you could even replace the display server without doing so and no matter how you do it, that seems janky af unless you’re a veteran kernel dev who can troubleshoot wm issues. Which from this thread, you absolutely aren’t.
The other thing I asked you is why you would go so damned far out of your way here to avoid xorg and Wayland. The video in this post doesn’t seem to present any credible reasons why it would be worth dealing with something like this for. Granted I didn’t watch all of it, kinda lost me in the first 10 minutes.
Daaaamn, good thing that the main selling point was “everything you used before works the same”. I guess it does not have feature parity with xorg, huh?
lol
